There was a whole series of comments. I've posted a few here.

It's all about numbers. There are too many stupid people. If your tax bracket is where most the stupid people are your screwed.

I'll say it again - FLAT TAX!

I agree with you absolutely. Flat tax is commensurate with your level of income but does not penalize you for working hard(and taking more responsibility!) to make the money you deserve. It's makes sense and it's fair...which is why the current government would never go for it! HAHAHA!

Hear, hear! Tell that to the Oz labour govt who's using our taxpayer dollars for handouts!!!!

I read this and I know the person who posted the original message. He is a really good man. So I'm assuming that these other people that he knows and responded must be of similar quality in character. Yet, here are these words that I just couldn't get past. Where does this disdain for the middle and lower class come from?

It seems to just run wild. Growing up in the very red state of Kansas I am use to seeing this. It is so entrenched there that many of these people are bashing themselves without even realizing it. Another friend of mine, in the last 5 years or so has become super conservative. He spouts the Fox News lines religiously. Talks about how he doesn't want to pay taxes for all these handouts. He grew up in a poor family and I know they received government assistance. It is likely he would have faced starvation without it. Even as an adult I know that he and his wife have had to file bankruptcy, through no fault of their own, and used government programs. Still there is this voiced hatred for what amounts to himself.

Through Kansas I hear this same song and dance. These farmers preach against government bailouts and against welfare and all the programs. Yet, they get government subsidies for their farming, they use Social Security and Medicare when they retire and know the hardship of not going to the doctor when they need to because they can't afford it, but still oppose government healthcare reform.

So many of the red state middle and lower class repeatedly speak out against government programs that benefit them and that they rely on. Every November, they go to the polls and repeatedly vote for officials that are going to support the agenda of the rich at the expense of the middle and lower class which elects them. These people are effectively voting against their own well being. I know that one reason it happens is because the candidates have successfully waved a few hot button issues in front of them to bait them. One big issue in Kansas is abortion. These candidates wave this flag and the working person sends them to DC to stop abortion. Abortion may get mentioned for a matter of hours out of the whole time that official is there and the rest of the time the official is there he or she is passing legislation that hurts their constituents, but as long as they mention abortion the damage they do is overlooked. For this group, I can only site the ever weakening education system, the effectiveness of the Republican misinformation machines and a lack of citizen responsibility when it comes to researching candidates, issues and legislation.

As far as the wealthy, well that is a different story. To the wealthy, I offer this letter:

To all the wealthy:

There are some things I would like to share with you. You all seem to live by a set of social standards and beliefs based heavily on at least one very false premise. Please allow me to illuminate some truths for you. I don’t want you to totally shut me out before I begin so let me acknowledge some points that I know you want everyone to realize and appreciate.

First, I know many of you did not inherit your wealth. You worked really hard to get where you are at. You earned what you have. It is your right to have this because you worked for it. If someone else wants what you have they should work for it too. Life is not easy and we should all pick ourselves up by our boot straps and work harder if we want more.

Second, a flat tax is a fair tax because it taxes everyone the same. You shouldn’t be targeted because you do well. You are living the American dream and you earned it. Taxes only hurt America.

Third, the government’s social welfare programs only encourage people to be lazy. People should take care of themselves. Your tax dollars should not go to handouts.

Last, the best way to help this country is to get government out of the business of the corporations trying to do business and do away with taxes.

I will add this one sub-note in for the many Christians that are part of this group. Christ didn’t like tax collectors. Tax collectors are evil and this country was founded on Christianity.

Well now I would like to, at the very least, give you something to think about with this.

First off, obviously, none of us in the middle and lower classes inherited any great wealth either. Many times what we inherit is worthless in the monetary sense, but still dear to us because of the love we have for those who owned it before us. So that is not an issue. You worked hard, well so did and do most Americans in the middle and lower class. For the majority of the people in the middle and lower class, hard work has never been a problem. Many of these folks work multiple jobs to try to scrape by, sometimes successfully and sometimes not. I know that some folks out there are dodging bill collectors to avoid their responsibility. There are many many more that don’t have to dodge the bill collectors, because they are always at work when they call. Most of the middle and lower class knows that life isn’t easy. Perhaps they know it better than you.

Have you ever had to explain to your children why they can’t have a Christmas like their friends at school? Have you ever had to hope that when Christmas comes around that people will be generous this year so that Marine will be able to give you something for your kids so they don’t have to learn at a young age that there is no Santa? Have you ever had to have a stranger go through all your most personal information to determine whether you really need those food stamps that you are embarrassed to use anyway, but you do so because your kids need to have something to eat? Have you ever had to conduct a make shift bake sale to humbly ask for help from strangers in a Wal-Mart parking lot because your job just isn’t making the bills?

Second, a flat tax is fair. Seriously? Let’s apply this to some real numbers. Let’s take an E3 in the military, married with one child. Base pay is under $2k a month, but we will say $2k just to keep round numbers. Housing allowance is $646.20, let’s say $650. Clothing allowance, we’ll go with the top one and say a Female Marine, so $428.40 but we’ll say $450. So the clothing allowance is once a year so we’ll take $450 and add 12 months of pay at $2k. So now we have $24,450. Now let’s add 12 months of housing allowance at $650, so now we have $32,250 a year. Because I live here and I know the rates, let’s put them in San Diego area. So automatically, take away the housing allowance because the rates here take all of it. So that gives an annual pay of $24,450, I know what you are thinking, the utilities are taken care of and you’re right.

Typically, the military spouse doesn’t do as well with pay, since they move with the Service Member. However, since we obviously want dad to work too, let’s be generous and double the Service Member pay to count for both of them. Now this family is making $48,900. So let’s take the annual pay and apply the bracket tax rate of 15%. So that leaves $41,565.

Let’s apply the rest of their expenses and let’s start with the child. So, day care at about $400 a month which is $4,800 a year. Food, just for the child, $400 a month and $4,800 a year. Clothes at about $100 a month and $1,200 a year. Last, about $100 a month or $1,200 a year for various other things (medicine, school fees, field trips, etc.). This totals, just for the child, $1,000 a month and $9,800 a year.

Now for the other family fees. Car insurance for two vehicles for a year at about $2,000. Car maintenance at about $600 a year, and that is very conservative. Gas for two vehicles at 30 mpg with 20 gallon tanks in San Diego, probably need to fill every two weeks, at least, currently we have gas at $4.30 a gallon so that comes to about $4,472 a year for gas. Food for the two adults is probably about $800 a month and $9,600 a year. Again, for the various other things that come up we’ll give $100 a month for each parent for a total of $2,400 a year. Phones, my wife and I have a good family plan at about $160 a month and $1,920 a year. I’m not going to include any media because, obviously, you want them to work more if they aren’t sleeping.

To total all that up it is $32,992. So take the $41,565 after taxes and subtract the yearly expenses of $32,992 that leaves $8,573. That is for anything unexpected, savings, birthdays, Christmas, Thanksgiving. Not impossible. This is a military family so they have a break on housing, utilities, medical insurance, and other resources. So we have to keep in mind that there are obviously families doing much worse than this. Now let’s apply that flat tax.

For those poor poor souls only making $250k a year they pay a ridiculous tax of 33%. Let’s apply that to the family noted previously. Take their untaxed $48,900 and apply a 33% tax leaves $32,763. Now let’s subtract their expenses of $32,992. OOPS! We have a deficit of $229. I guess someone doesn’t eat that month and there is definitely no Christmas that year.

What about the suffering of the person making $250k and paying that horrible tax rate? Well let’s take $250,000 and apply 33% tax and we have $167,500. WOW! However will they survive? Let’s subtract the expenses from that and see what we have…..well we have $134,505. That’s pretty tough. I don’t know how anyone could make it on that, but wait that is more than four times what the other family had as base pay BEFORE the housing was even deducted….

Fair flat tax? Sounds like an oxymoron.

How about the welfare programs encouraging people to be lazy. These people just need to go to school if they want to do well. That’s what you did. OH Wait! You went to school. You didn’t go to public school did you? You didn’t happen to use government subsidized loans or Pell grants did you? Those are a form of….GOVERNMENT WELFARE! OH NO! Please tell me you didn’t take a government hand out… It’s a good one though. Unfortunately, it has been on the decline. Per student funding has been on a drastic decline for the past few decades. Government funding of education at all levels has been falling off and now with the budget crisis, education(at all levels) is becoming the first thing cut. So while you get to keep your tax cuts, because we all know it is rough for you, these kids are being churned out of the schools further and further behind their international counterparts which is adding to them being skilled for little more than waving good bye to their jobs as they go overseas.

So just another question with these handouts, so do we just let these people starve when they can’t make it? What about what to do with their bodies afterwards? Can we raise taxes to clean up their carcasses? Or only just enough for a mass grave? I’ll let you think about it.

What about other services paid for with taxes? Would you consider the resources of 911 a handout? Should we do prepay? Maybe we should have to talk to an automated system and enter our card number before we talk to a dispatcher.
 
So since you don’t like social welfare programs, you are going to take care of your parents when they retire right? You aren’t planning on having “the man” in charge of that are you? What about if a child gets hit by a car? Should we make them wear dog tags so we can verify they have insurance before we call an ambulance? I suppose if they don’t we could just leave them on the road to become pressed down by the traffic like a dead squirrel would. We sure don’t want to give them any handouts. We’ll let that little girl die, that will teach her not to be lazy and expect handouts.

Oh and the last point of yours, government needs to stay out of everyone’s business and let the companies do their job and stop with the taxes. Well I already covered the tax issue. About government regulation though, so when they say that a vehicle should work and be safe or that there should be a recall to correct the issue, that doesn’t work for you? So you don’t want the government to require your car to stop when you hit the brakes? How about safe work environments? You don’t think that someone should require there to be a fire exit? What about all the people who have died in large numbers prior to the creation of these regulations? Well I personally don’t want to have to rely on someone who is only looking at account balances to decide what my safety is worth.

You know, you wealthy folks use to pay allot higher taxes. America didn’t fall apart either. Quite the contrary, America built an Interstate System, advanced communications, and greatly expanded its military which inadvertently made many folks even richer. America built schools and did all kinds of great things. I know, Ronald Reagan told you different. Ronald Reagan knew best and cut the taxes. Well, you should know that the adviser to Ronald Reagan who designed the famous tax cuts has come out and said that there needs to be tax raises on everyone. It’s true. Also, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton and both the Bush’s all carried out the Reagan plan to deregulate the banks which allowed them to do the shady business that caused all of us to have to bail them out. There was allot that came from Reagan that didn’t quite pan out in the long run.

So let me sum this up a little for you. Most of the people in the middle and lower class are not lazy. Not everyone has had opportunities to go to school. I am raised by two working parents who have worked so hard that their bodies are worn out. My dad gets up a little after midnight to run a route and doesn’t finally get to bed till 6pm. He’s done that for years. His knees are shot, his back is shot, and his wrists are shot and so are his shoulders. He still gets up and still goes to work. My parents work quite hard and always have. They are not rich. My father has never flown anywhere for vacation. My mother has only flown a couple times and it was not anything luxurious. They will retire and live on a tight budget with great hopes that their Medicare and Social Security will be there after they’ve paid in to it for their whole life.

They are not dead beats. I know we are “those people” that you look down your noses at with disdain. Well I invite you to work one day on my dad’s route. My parents have worked damn hard for everything they have, but they cannot afford to pay 33% taxes. They would be homeless. Next time you want to talk badly about the programs that the government has to help the middle and lower class, the next time you want to talk badly about those less fortunate than you, don’t, not until you are ready to bare their burdens.

I think it is really sad that my wife and I make so little, yet I am gladly willing to pay more taxes. I see that it is for the good of the country. I know that we struggle to make it now. I know that it will mean sacrifices. Yet, if we raise everyone’s taxes, then I know we can accomplish good things. I do not have the income to spare. I do not own any property. I owe more money than I will make in the next several years. So why is it OK for me and people in similar financial states as mine, to pay more taxes but the wealthy cannot be burdened to take on more? I know about hard work. I worked as much as 120 hours a week at times in the Navy. When I wanted to pick up certifications I worked a 12 hour night shift in the ER then showered, ate breakfast and went to class for 8 hours, went home and took a two hour nap and did it all over again. I know what hard work means. I am going to school. I am paying for it with the hard work I did in the military and with student loans. I will be paying for my loans for years to come.

Do I still think we all need to pay more taxes, yes! I don’t want to do it but I understand that we have responsibilities to each other as Americans and we need to do our part. Remember that phrase that gets thrown around all the time..."Freedom is not Free." Well that applies in this situation too. It is not exclusively a patriotic way to write off the death of a Service Member who willingly laid their life on the line hoping they would live through it and get to use their GI Bill to go to school to try to have what you all have.

Now for those of you who fancy themselves good Christians and like to point out that Christ didn’t like tax collectors. Well the taxes are not 100% used properly, but ultimately are accumulated to help people. Let’s remember the bigger lessons we’ve been taught from the bible.
Help the Poor and do not hold to material riches:

Deuteronomy 15:7, 11 If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother. There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land.

Psalm 41:1-2 Blessed is he who has regard for the weak; the LORD delivers him in times of trouble. The LORD will protect him and preserve his life; he will bless him in the land and not surrender him to the desire of his foes.

Proverbs 14:21 He who despises his neighbor sins, but blessed is he who is kind to the needy.

Proverbs 21:13 If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered.

Matthew 25:41-45 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me.'

Matthew 19: 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24: And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Luke 6 Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be satisfied. Woe unto you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort. Woe unto you who are well fed now, for you will go hungry.

1 John 3:17-18 If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.